Dead web sites

http://www.featherish.com/ is now dead, taken over by a spam link company.

http://www.moritherapy.org/religion-vs-spirituality/ is even better than the site was before, so not everything is dead.

http://thedepressedchicksstory.blogspot.com/ is dead and ready for a spambot to move in and take over

http://jujuju.org/ is no longer relevant. It is more entertaining

Compulsive Eaters Anonymous-HOW -- well worth a visit. They are a group that gets success. http://www.ceahow.org/hist.htm for more about them. "It is important to note that all H.O.W. groups are sugar and flour abstinent and committed to weighing and measuring their food. However, there are regional differences in some of the abstinence programs. "


Overeaters Anonymous Very Low Carbohydrate Food Plan: Greysheet Recipes by Anonymous Members of Greysheet Recipes and Member of OA & Greysheeter's Anonymous (Paperback - May 2, 2008)
Buy new: $24.95 $22.45
13 Used & new from $22.45

http://wordpress.com/tag/overeaters-anonymous/

• http://blameful.wordpress.com/2008/09/07/gone-nowhere/ -- terribly sad.
• http://blameful.wordpress.com/2008/09/06/time-of-day-and-purging/
• http://recoveringanorexic.wordpress.com/2008/09/06/lowest-of-low/

Wishing people hope and strength.

Food is a drug to me

I just want to thank you for your suggestion for some folks to seek out OA meetings. I am only speaking from my own experience.

I fell off the "Shangri-La" wagon several times and for the same reasons I have been unable to maintain any healthy changes in lifestyle or adhere to any weight loss plan or "diet", regardless of how well I was losing weight. I would hit my "wall of fear"--I guess I cannot concieve of what life will be like once I lose a fair amount of weight - I am going to be vunerable and scared. Overeating food and being overweight is my personal cushion between me and the world. This is why I sought out the OA program. I need to deal with my emotional eating issues. What Shangri-La does for me is shut off the "screaming" of my body for unnecessary, unneeded extra food. Food is a drug to me. I would "inject" my drug every night before bed alone in front of the TV until I was overfull and wakeup every morning "hung over" and sick from all the crap I ate the night before, and my drug worked less and less and I would have to eat more and more. The comfort was fleeting. Having AS, I am more clearheaded and able to work on my emotional eating issues without succumbing.

There are many types of OA groups - there are beginner groups. If you go to the OA site, the groups will have descriptions of who they are meant for.

There are OA groups for bulimics and anorexics, though from what I understand they seek out additional one-on-one therapy. Everyone needs to seek out what works best for them.

"We admitted we were powerless over food--that our lives had become unmanageable."

Well, she was thanking someone else, but she hit it right on the head:

http://boards.sethroberts.net/index.php?topic=5351.msg74073#msg74073

Bad extrapolations, silliness in diet books

Too many diet experts extrapolate from very, very small (tiny) population samples.

For example, if you exercise more than twenty hours a week, you will lose weight much differently than a normal person does.

Then there are the people whose set points are loosely held and who don't regulate their weight well by just eating until they have cleaned their plates. They can just go "hey, I've gotten fat, I guess I'll eat less" and they'll lose weight.

Then there are the "walk a mile every day until you are thin" types who do not respond to needing more calories by eating more. How many fat walkers have you seen? Women's magazine editors talk about those types of articles in terms of "if I read another one I'll puke."

Most people do not fall into one of those narrow groups. On the other hand, almost all personal trainer types are the "work out more than twenty hour a week" types. Big surprise -- their experience and observations are useless for their clients, most of whom stay fat.

The other two groups may have some benefits, walking reduces tension and is good for keeping mental acuity (for real, real studies show that walking on a daily basis preserves mental function as you get older -- it just doesn't make you thin), but as for a diet, if it really worked we would all be walking.

But at least half of the diets and health books out there make bad extrapolations and result in silliness. Nothing more.

Some good links:

http://www.featherish.com/

http://www.moritherapy.org/

http://thedepressedchicksstory.blogspot.com/

http://metrowestoa.org/wsbc2008/

http://jujuju.org/

Fourth and Fifth Steps in OA

Part of a twelve-step program is working the twelve steps. For most programs, many people have real problems with the fourth and fifth steps, which have to do with taking inventory of yourself and making things right. The reason for them is to start to unwind the complex of behaviors, habits and issues that feed addiction.

OA is really different from other twelve step programs at this point. Most alcoholics and drug addicts have been unfaithful to spouses, stolen and lied to support their addictions and done a lot of other things in the grip of their compulsions.

People who overeat have as the most important thing that they get from the fourth and fifth steps is that they should love themselves.

Instead of fear and loathing, most feel relief and joy.

So, is everyone a carb addict?

No. Not even. Think of the Pima Indians. Sure, 50% have bloated up -- but 50% of them haven't!

So, a lot of people would be a lot better off without any sugar, without any white flour and with reduced carbs.

But some people lose weight while eating half a cup to a cup of sugar a day (like this guy) and others do just fine in their blood work (like this one) but it doesn't usually hurt to start that way. South Beach Diet guidelines are an easy way to do that.

Bottom line:

So many folks are looking for a miracle program that has every nutrition and lifestyle choice under a microscope. Something to "guarantee" results, as it dominates all aspects of their life.

That article goes on to explain:

4. Low Carbs or High Carbs? Make a Choice.

Everyone knows that in order to lose fat you need to cut your carbs, right? Not so fast. Certain studies have shown that some people lose almost twice as much fat on high carb diets as they would on low carb diets. However, others will lose twice as much fat by doing the opposite and keeping their carbs low (3).

This is due to variations in insulin sensitivity and glucose tolerance. In many ways, insulin and glucose have a stimulating effect on the body. In people that are insulin sensitive, carbs increase sympathetic nervous system activity (think natural amphetamine), which translates into a boost in metabolism.

However, the thermic effect of carbohydrate ingestion varies greatly between different people. Insulin resistant people don't get the same metabolic stimulating effect. But people that are more insulin sensitive often feel like crap on low carb diets for this reason. Their metabolism quickly drops like a rock in response to low carbs, while more insulin resistant people will enjoy greater energy and mental clarity.

So, how do you tell which VIP club you're in? If you feel like death after a few days of low carbs and find that you don't lose much fat, you're probably more insulin sensitive. You can likely succeed with a diet as high as 50% carbs. If you feel on top of the world, you're probably more insulin resistant and will do better keeping carbs to 30% or less.

If you're still not sure which group you're in, test yourself. After eating a fairly high carb diet (at least 150 to 200 grams) for three days, and going at least 24 hours without exercise, have 50 to 75 grams of medium glycemic carbs, such as oatmeal, for breakfast.

Scroll down, ignore the advertisements and you will eventually get to a test to figure out what kind of diet will work for you (instead of making you balloon up even bigger).

If after an hour, you feel sleepy and are hungrier than you were before eating, then carbs aren't for you. If you feel more energetic, then carbs are your new training partner.

What about surgery?

First thing they will tell you is no sugar and no bread. Ok.

Second thing they will tell you is that it only works if you join and attend a support group. Most people are back to where they were (except disfigured and scarred by surgery) within seven years.

Bottom line: you have to live as if you were strictly part of OA-HOW and they also want $14,000 or so from you.

Try OA HOW first, see if you can handle it for a year. If you can, then weight loss surgery is for you, if you still need it. If you can't, the surgery isn't going to work for you, just screw you up really badly. The surgery is as bad for you, or worse, than being fat. That isn't much of an improvement.

• http://www.foodaddictsanonymous.org/faq.htm
  
• http://wordpress.com/tag/oahow/
• http://oahow.squarespace.com/1a-oa-how-questions-ii/
• http://www.oa.org/faqs_page2.html#18
• Recipes and eating plans
• www.foodaddictsanonymous.org -- the guys who agree with Gary
  Taubes and science. Still not reconciled, guess because they are right, kind of.
  

Harder to find than I thought. At least OA HOW has reconciled with OA these days even if food addicts hasn't.

Try them for a year, figure out if you want HOW or FA, and see how it holds together. Costs a heck of a lot less than surgery.

Good stuff

People who are involved in personal development of any kind do exactly these things. When it first starts, they recognize that they are powerless over their limitations.

This does not mean that there is nothing that can be done about the thing that they want to change. It simply means that, as things stand right now, they don’t have the necessary knowledge or ability to make the change that they want to.

But there’s always hope.

Whatever limitation you are currently powerless over, it’s always possible to find the necessary power if you follow the directions of those that have done what you want to do.

SLD gave me power over my appetite. There was suddenly something that could be done that worked.

But that is the quote that made me provide a link to http://creatingabetterlife.net/

I feel so judged and so judged. At the same time, I can’t help that and whatever I think is only that, it’s what I think. It may or may not be true. One the most moving parts of this meeting, was hearing the story of a really strong Israeli woman who has been through so much.

From http://muslimahinprogress.wordpress.com/

There is no quick fix.

From http://recoveredbulimic.wordpress.com/2008/04/19/normal-eating/ "I am so grateful that I survived those days as a young woman struggling in New York City — a walking toothpick, bingeing and vomiting incessantly, sometimes even vomiting blood, depressed and alone, paranoid and afraid, having blackouts and hearing voices as I walked to work. I wanted to live, but I had lost hope and was waiting for death. Instead, I recovered."

My definition of humanity – of being a human being – of the human condition – is that we all have something. Behind our masks, underneath our strategically chosen clothing and in the shadows of our carefully selected words, we all struggle.

From http://serafina00.vox.com/

Good stuff.

OA Blog Links

I'll comment on these later, but wanted to put them up:

http://humantermination.blogspot.com/2008/05/over-eaters-anonymousno.html

http://blameful.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/one-more-day/

http://recoveredbulimic.wordpress.com/2008/04/25/the-blessings-of-bulimia/

http://www.balancedlifecenter.com/298-surrender-powerlessness-and-other-bad-words/

http://overeater.podbean.com/2008/04/27/friday-night-live-is-on-the-air/

http://cherishedmisery.blogspot.com/2008/04/snot-anyone.html

http://overactivefork.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/avoiding-food/

http://weightloss.homeofimprovement.com/where-to-get-obesity-help/

http://sandeek.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/abstinent-recipe-of-the-week-bacon-jicama-melt/

http://phcblog.com/haroldprince1700/2008/04/21/struggling-issues-for-your-teens/

http://serafina00.vox.com/library/post/our-invitation-to-you.html

http://recoveredbulimic.wordpress.com/2008/04/19/normal-eating/

http://muslimahinprogress.wordpress.com/2008/04/18/balance/

http://creatingabetterlife.net/2008/03/24/powerlessness-hacking-the-12-steps-of-alcoholics-anonymous/

Why doctors hate fat people

Perhaps I've put it wrong. It should be, why doctors really, really, really hate fat people.

It seems stupid. Any doctor with half a brain knows that diets don't work. The studies are clear. But, medical professionals can't help themselves from seeing that:

• half of all health problems are "voluntary" (caused by either fat or cigarettes).
• fat makes everything, everything, a doctor does more difficult in ways that they don't get to charge extra for.

Doctors think fat people are stealing from them (forget the monopoly of the AMA, the price fixing and the raw greed and harm to the public health that doctors have engaged in historically).

Nurses just know that fat people are career enders -- more nurses end up with career ending injuries from treating fat people than any other cause.

But next time you think your doctor is hostile to you because you are fat, you aren't reading anything into things. Doctors hate fat people, irrationally so, to the extent that all they do is prescribe diets that make the situation worse (crash diets and rebounding will make you gain weight), surgery that has a history of failing and exercise programs that will make you eat more as your body adjusts.

They do all these stupid things because they hate you so much they can't think straight and honestly do something about the issues.

Which is why the SLD was invented by a PhD and not an MD. And why doctors are pushing expensive programs that don't work for fat people instead of the SLD that does. They hate you and want money from you, rather than want to help your health.

Read Good Calories, Bad Calories (read here and here) and ask yourself if the doctors are really that dense or if they are intentionally pushing a diet they know makes the situation worse. Which one makes them more money?

How I do the Shangri La Diet

I started with one tablespoon of walnut oil, in two ounces of water. I'd put it on the bathroom counter and when I got up in the middle of the night, I'd drink it down. I did that for a week, did not notice much of a change.

Then I moved up to two tablespoons and checked to make sure I was using a real tablespoon (got a measuring spoon from my pharmacy). Did that for a week, and started to lose weight.

After a couple-three months the weight loss slowed, so I moved to three tablespoons.

Now, I use three tablespoons of oil every night. I get more than an hour before and after without any flavor and the walnut oil helps my Omega 3 balance, which is good for my heart and brain.

If three had not worked, I'd have moved to four.

I know, the rule is "one day at a time" but I adjust the amount of oil I take one week at a time.

So, SLD and OA? Yes!

The numbers are pretty good that SLD with a support group works better than without. OA is everywhere, on-line and in person. It is dirt cheap to belong (you can donate a dollar at a meeting if you want to, but you don't have to). Everyone there will understand what it is like to be compulsive about food and to have emotions and other issues if you don't eat -- and you will probably experience something like that if you go on SLD.

Almost everyone who has weight loss surgery has issues. There is little reason to suspect that SLD won't do that to you too.

Cheap, available, friendly, and if you actually listen to and apply the 12 steps you will be a better person for it.

Just be aware that OA isn't a monolith. Each group is different, some very, very different from each other. If you don't like a group, find another one or create your own.

Here is an introduction:

After years of struggling with your weight and obsessing about food, you have decided to give Overeaters Anonymous a try. You find an OA meeting in your area by checking OA's online meeting locator or by calling or e-mailing the World Service Office (WSO). You've called the contact person to confirm the day, time and location of the meeting to make sure the information hasn't changed.

When you arrive at the meeting, you will find men and women who share a common malady—compulsive eating—and have found a common solution: the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions of Overeaters Anonymous. You will see anywhere from three to 30 people at the meeting. An average meeting has about 10. You will be warmly welcomed.

The meeting usually opens with the Serenity Prayer, and you may hear a reading called "Our Invitation to You," which describes the disease of compulsive overeating and the Twelve-Step solution. Meeting formats may vary, but all OA groups are the same in that they seek recovery on three levels—physical, emotional and spiritual—through the Twelve Steps, and the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop eating compulsively.

You may hear a speaker open the meeting and speak for 10 to 15 minutes about what life was like before OA, what happened, and what he or she is like now; or someone might read from OA or AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) literature. Other members will share their experience, strength and hope. You will have an opportunity to introduce yourself as a newcomer, if you like. You will find that you are not alone, that there is a way out of your desperation. Because anonymity is a critical principle of the OA program, you are assured that what you share will be held in confidence. This provides the safety you need to share your experiences honestly.

Find an OA Meeting

Difficulties

The difficulty with OA is that no other group has as many splinter groups or as many in leadership positions who seem like they just need to sit through a good al anon meeting.

Also, given the history of pink cloud OAers, no one will take SLD seriously if you haven't been in OA four or five years. Even when they do, they'll remember the carbohydrate wars, and won't be very interested in embracing SLD.

Finally, many in OA think that the chaos and turmoil that lies under compulsive overeating is the cause of compulsive overeating (which it is for some -- though I'd bet carbohydrate addiction and misplaced set points affect more people).

History again

Historically, OA began with three people using methamphetamines (doctor prescribed) to lose weight who got together to start their own twelve step program. True to their OCD streak, they abandoned sitting around a table for one person leading a controlled meeting (like a school room). It rewrote the 12 steps completely, dropping most of the core concepts and merged with Gluttons Anonymous a Texas group that was seeking serenity.
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OA has always been driven by images of physical recovery, a highly compulsive borderline anorexic is completely acceptable as a leader. Someone who has lost 200-300 pounds, but who is still overweight is not acceptable at all.

As a result the group has a heavy dose of highly OCD women in the mainline leadership, leavened with others.

Also, unlike other 12 step groups, OA has had strong exclusionary strains, mostly with groups that exclude men.

The saving grace of OA is sterling literature and a willingness to embrace its splinter groups. As a result, it is easy to create or find a support group for any type of person who wants to learn to live without being driven by, or drowned by, food.

So, what about the Shangri La Diet?

SLD will help any type of compulsive over eater with hunger. The troubled won't be able to deal with their issues without some support if they don't have food. A number of early SLDers dropped out when they realized they were not ready to live without their fat. Annie's is the blog of an SLDer who lost weight and then realized her staying fat was how she had dealt with being sexually assaulted. She had to drop SLD until she was ready to lose weight again.

However, it worked.

Several people have posted that the diet did not seem to be working for them, or that it was working very slowly (there is a "Why am I not losing weight?" thread).

However, the vast majority have indeed reported successful weight loss, at varying rates. (I'll not pull any instances of this for you, as a quick glance at Seth's forums shows this very clearly.) The current "champion" loser, Stephen M or Ethesis, started last year and is currently at -62 pounds. He posts updates here. I'm currently still at -20 pounds, but sure I can lose more, and will post more on my experience at this blog and here on Seth's forum. Folks posting at Seth's forums are in all stages of weight loss, from nada to having lost more weight than I have.

Very interestingly, posters regularly report identical "symptoms" as I and others experienced and documented in this blog back into 2005:

• dramatic, sudden, and new (for us) "control" over what and when to eat
• dramatic reduction or "taming" of appetite
• greatly diminished cravings
• a change in "taste" away from junk, salty, overly-spiced, or other typical "bad" foods

The diet seems to regularly increase people's sense of "detachment"; especially from food, but also from other intakes it seems.

History

Historically, OCD types, control freaks, have often pushed for control on other issues. They came up with definitions of abstinence and other ways to control other people. They have also provoked two major split offs, both over the "carbohydrate controversy" (which came, caused a split, was rediscovered, caused another split). The split offs, fondly referred to as OA Nazis, get results, but they drive the OCD types even crazier, and they coined the return reference "fat acceptance" for those in OA who have not abandoned sugar and flour.

The big push back was driven by deluded OCDers backed up by malpracticing nutritionists who had been misled by incompetent summaries of the research into thinking that the HOW people were going to kill themselves through malnutrition and one too many good steaks. Some actually used force to take "gray sheets" (the anti-carb diet) away from people.

You can get a great view of the science in the following books (pick them up through your library):

Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes (Hardcover - Sep 25, 2007) - Roughcut Buy new: $27.95 $18.45 48 Used & new from $15.00 Get it by Tuesday, April 29 if you order in the next 21 hours and choose one-day shipping. Eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping. (152) Books: See all 9,005 items

2. The Great Cholesterol Con: The Truth About What Really Causes Heart Disease and How to Avoid It by Dr. Malcolm Kendrick (Paperback - Jan 1, 2007) Buy new: $16.95 $11.53 23 Used & new from $10.28 Get it by Tuesday, April 29 if you order in the next 21 hours and choose one-day shipping. Eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping. (20) Books: See all 9,005 items

3. Carb Wars: Sugar is the New Fat by Judy Barnes Baker (Paperback - April 1, 2007) Buy new: $21.95 $14.93 11 Used & new from $13.22 Get it by Tuesday, April 29 if you order in the next 21 hours and choose one-day shipping. Eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping. (18) Books: See all 9,005 items

4. The Diet Delusion: Challenging the Conventional Wisdom on Diet, Weight Loss and Disease by Gary Taubes (Hardcover - Jan 17, 2008) - Import 3 Used & new from $35.09 Books: See all 9,005 items

Types of compulsive eaters

There are a lot of different reasons people are compulsive overeaters (though OA also has groups for anorexics, it is really a group for people who are compulsive about their eating).

The types are:

1. Compulsive OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) types.
2. Carbohydrate addicts.
3. Misplaced coping skills (people who eat to cope).
4. Misplaced set points

Most people when they start OA enter what is called the "pink cloud." Just starting results in a period of weight loss for most people. It isn't until that is over that anything relevant happens.

The OCD types just flip their switches. Instead of eating compulsively, they are compulsive about not eating. Carbohydrate addicts either end up with the Nazi OA or the Fat Acceptance OA (OA-HOW or mainstream OA). The troubled, who eat to cope, will end up at their natural set point (probably displaced by years of abuse). Those whose set points are just off for one reason or another won't make much progress, but they'll be more relaxed about it.

Introduction

This is a blog about the intersection of the Shangri La Diet and Overeaters Anonymous.